Frustrated

[mojaveJohn]

So I have taken Big Jake out three times in the last couple of weeks and I have gotten skunked every time.



We have been hunting in some good quail and chukar country;



but nary a point. (that's my son in that last pic). We even hunted near a guzzler today.



I found plenty of sign, feathers and tracks, but no birds. The only time I have seen Jake come close to a point was last week, and when he was done with that bush, he just pissed on it. I went up and kicked around it just to make sure, and nothing was there.



He seems to me that he is looking for birds, he is ranging out in front of me pretty good most of the time, and sniffing everything, so what gives? The only thing that I can think of is their are no birds where we have been. I have been using a quail call and haven't heard any calling, and I haven't seen any birds, I would excpect to kick some up just by chance, just like before I had Jake, if there were some in the area. This makes me think that this is my fault and I just haven't been taking the dog to where the birds are.

How far do quail usually travel in a day? Do they need water everyday? What would you do to find the birds?
Don't get me wrong, this is still better than sitting at home and watching the TV or taking care of the honeydo list. I have seen some beautiful country so far this season.



Now if I can jsut kill a few more birds, that would be great. Thanks for your help.

[Azgunner]

Hey MojaveJohn
I take it Jake has found and pointed birds in the past? Always try to set the dog up for success!
More scouting is always a plus but I have hunted the same area that I got into a lot of birds on one day only to find none a day or two later (no, I didn't get them all the first time ). Quail territories are not real big, maybe a few square miles or so, unless pushed really hard and move out farther, in the cooler times of the year they may not require water every day.
while scouting in the off season try to figure where the birds are roosting, feeding, etc and check on them a few times before the season opener to see if they are still around.
calling is good.
Knowing what they feed on in any given area can help.
time of day can dictate where the birds may or may not be as far as down low or up high in the terrain.
another thing to consider is hunting pressure on the birds, if they have been hunted a lot (especially this time of the season) they may be moving out far ahead of you to escape, Quail are really pretty intelligent and after the first couple weeks of the season all the dumb birds are dead and the rest have college degrees, having said that, the challenge for us is to attempt to outsmart them, maybe by approaching an area from a different angle, starting on the high ground and push them down low to cut off escape routes, this is another way scouting pays off by figuring out thier daily patterns.
If you get these rascalls totally figured out you can get filthy rich overnight! Let me know when that happens, please

[mojaveJohn]

AZgunner: yeah I left out the part about how I acquired the dog. I just bought a 5 yo male GSP from a kennel. The trainer said he needed to get rid of a few dogs because he had to many. I told him my situation, I have never owned or even hunted behind a dog before. He told me this dog would be a good fit for me, that this dog is the dog he just takes out "hunting". So yes he has pointed birds before, according to the trainer, but just not for me. This is the part that I really am getting frustrated with. I thought I would be into birds all the time if I had a dog, but obviously not. I really do think it's more me than the dog. The trainer said that I could come back anytime to work with him and Jake. I am definitely going to do that after the season is over (Jan.29). Until then, I am going to keep working him and hopefully we will find us some birds. I am a novice hunter at best, this is the first season out since 2005. Although I'm at a point in my life where I should be able to continue hunting season after season now. I really appreciate the advice. I am getting ready to go back up to where I was yesterday and hunt another area, so hopefully I will post some pics with some birds next time.

[Escopeton]

If you're interested in finding out if he can actually point live birds; plant some birds for him. Take him to an area that you can train on and plant some pigeons. Bring him to the planted bird(s) from a down wind position and see if can point them. The birds can be hobbled, carded or dizzled in order to get to sit tight for awhile. And, most importantly; continue getting out into the field.

[mojaveJohn]

Escopeton:
yeah we went back to the general area we were in yesterday, and still no luck. I really don't think there are (m)any birds in that area right now. There were other hunters out there and I didn't here anyone poping off any shots. I talked with a couple guys and they said they hadn't seen a thing either. The pisser is this area looks like it should hold good numbers of birds. On a better note, I have found two guzzlers and a spring in the last few days, and the area is absolutely beautiful, and great to hike around in when it's almost 70 degrees and a light breeze.





We did eventually find a covey of birds, they sort of acted like quail, and flushed up like quail, but they didn't quite fly the same way, and they looked just a little different too. As we were driving in my truck three birds flushed up and flew about 50 yds. in front of us. So I pulled over to check them out. As I pulled over another 30 birds flushed up from where the original 3 had landed. So I got Jake ready so we could check them out, just in case I was wrong. He really got his nose down and was doing some serious sniffing from where the birds had just been. He looked to me like he was getting "birdy". After he was done there, we hiked to the area they had landed at, and by this time they were gone. I am pretty sure I know where they went, down a sixty degree slope, where Jake and I weren't going to follow. It was very encouraging to see him act like that.


(I think you can see my house from here, it's the one with the brown roof)

We hiked around some more looking for another pair that I had seen fly in another direction, but no luck finding them. I called to them with my quail call threw out this period and nothing in return. I am sure if they were quail they would have been calling to regroup. I sure would like to know what type of bird it was. Oh well, at least he looked interested in something today.

I plan to take Jake back to the trainer in the near future and have him help me, he said we could work Jake over live birds anytime. So in the meantime I don't go back to work till the 5th of January so Jake and I are gonna get out to a new area and see if we can't find some birds for real this time.

[Azgunner]

Hey there Mojavejohn.
When I acquired Smitty a little over a year ago I had never owned a bird dog or even hunted with anyone who had one so I was pretty ignorant about how to hunt with one. I decided to get my self educated and to get Smitty trained professionally. When I approached our trainer for the first time and told him that I wanted both of to be trained and he informed me that training the dog would be the easy part (he did have a smile on his face when he told me that ) but to his credit he did indeed train both of us and shared a vast amount of knowledge and insight about how to work with a dog. I now understand soooooo much more about hunting with a dog than I ever could have imagined.
I, like you thought that OK, I get the dog trained and we will be in the birds all the time, how wrong I was, as I stated in my post last night the Keys to success go far beyond just having a trained dog and now that I understand that I know to do my part to get the dog into areas where he can be set up to succeed, they can not find birds for us where there are none to be found.
Any first time or novice bird dog owner owes it to himself as well as the dog to get the owner the training needed to make it all come together.
If you are interested, I will get you the contact info about who I trained with. He will evaluate you and your dog and get you headed in the right direction and will always be there for you if you have questions. It's well worth the time and money.
Hunting with my Smitty is such a pleasure all the time and when we do get into the birds, Well, life just doesn't get any better!
I hope my ramblings are a help to you.
Love the great pics you posted
Have a very HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[mojaveJohn]

Hey there Mojavejohn.
When I acquired Smitty a little over a year ago I had never owned a bird dog or even hunted with anyone who had one so I was pretty ignorant about how to hunt with one. I decided to get my self educated and to get Smitty trained professionally. When I approached our trainer for the first time and told him that I wanted both of to be trained and he informed me that training the dog would be the easy part (he did have a smile on his face when he told me that ) but to his credit he did indeed train both of us and shared a vast amount of knowledge and insight about how to work with a dog. I now understand soooooo much more about hunting with a dog than I ever could have imagined.
I, like you thought that OK, I get the dog trained and we will be in the birds all the time, how wrong I was, as I stated in my post last night the Keys to success go far beyond just having a trained dog and now that I understand that I know to do my part to get the dog into areas where he can be set up to succeed, they can not find birds for us where there are none to be found.
Any first time or novice bird dog owner owes it to himself as well as the dog to get the owner the training needed to make it all come together.
If you are interested, I will get you the contact info about who I trained with. He will evaluate you and your dog and get you headed in the right direction and will always be there for you if you have questions. It's well worth the time and money.
Hunting with my Smitty is such a pleasure all the time and when we do get into the birds, Well, life just doesn't get any better!
I hope my ramblings are a help to you.
Love the great pics you posted
Have a very HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Man that is my story exactly! The more we go out the more I think that you are correct. The trainer I got Jake from said he would help me anytime, I am gonna have to take him up on that offer. I got Jake from him on his recomendation that he would be a good first dog for me. He is very good in every way around the house, he gets along great with my family and the other pets, he is so gentle and loving too. Why don't you send me that number just in case. thanks for the words of encouragement. I am gonna go out again later this week and check out some new areas, I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again.

[Azgunner]

The info is as follows
Blankenburg Kennel
Gene Wulcotte
928-636-5530

Located in Chino Valley, Az.

Tell him I sent you

[mojaveJohn]

thanks

[Azgunner]

Hey there MojaveJohn
I should have included the web address for Blankenburg kennel
it is www.bkgsps.com
Chek it out, they have a nice web site.
They are REALLY NICE people who care tremendously about bird dogs and their owners.
training bird dogs is all they do, It's their livelihood.

Keep me posted on you and your dog.